Anyone else curious what those uber famous celebrities like Chris Tucker and then there’s Jay Leno who was even staying at Neverland Ranch and all the others who took the stand in his trial think today? Trailer. McclearnScott63428567. He seems like one of the most unreliable characters in this entire story and he's, unfortunately, the one that started all of it. Through gut-wrenching interviews, Leaving Neverland crafts a portrait of sustained exploitation, deception and complicated feelings that have led two men to tell their story of abuse by Michael Jackson. MJ was their best friend and a large part of their lives. Since Abuse is commonly cyclical I often wonder was MJ sexually abused and if so by who? Thank you for the links! This is also a place to just enjoy viewing and discussing Doc’s live together. Log in sign up. 16C Part 1 of 2: When allegations of sexual abuse by Michael Jackson involving young boys surfaced in 1993, few believed that the King of Pop could be guilty. What James & Wade detail is incredibly harrowing, playing it straight down the middle and just having them recount it … That doesn't mean I'm launching a hate wave against the guy. Email. If you remember the formal legal proceedings Michael Jackson was party too, do you think this doc provides a different prospective to those cases? As a film, it's amazing, super well made, emotional and overall extremely effective (what a doc should be). When the 2 men describe their sexual experience, it was very particular and specific. It’s sad that people don’t take into account the strength it takes for these victims to come forward. There's also recordings of Evan talking about going after MJ's career and Evan is also famously known, as per Carrie Fisher, as "The Dentist to the Stars" because he prescribes painkillers to celebrities that don't need them. Even back in his old interviews, it’s never made sense or seemed okay when he says “Yes, I share my bed I love my fans” and weirdo things like that. Michael Jackson Searching for Neverland (2017) Trailer. Sick fucks. The two-part documentary LEAVING NEVERLAND explores the separate but parallel experiences of two young boys, James “Jimmy” Safechuck, at age ten, and. Macaulay Culkin talked about how kids would always sleep over at MJ's place but the parents were always almost always literally in the other room. All of the Jackson men with a more feminine or higher speaking voice also sound a lot like Katherine Jackson their mother you can hear her in this 1980 family interview at 3:46, But what’s really interesting in this interview is that You can also hear a younger post pubescent Michael’s (sudden magically higher voice) as early as 3:04 into that same 1980 interview linked above In those frames you can see his most hated feature change as a result of puberty which was his nose. But if a 44 year old man is inviting 9 year old boys over to spend the night playing tummy sticks in his bed, I've already got enough info to know the man was a piece of garbage that nobody should mourn. It's a lot of trust from Dan Reed that his audience will sit through 4 hours or so of what is such explicit material - but it's the correct call. I can acknowledge how incredible the opportunity and experience was and how the parents didn’t want to cause the kids to miss out. I can’t see a “reasonable” parent agreeing to what Michael requested or how he acts, yet these parents did? Disgusting. I will try to clean this up later and format it for this post. Sorry about making those incorrect Jermaine references. Starstruck, seduced by fame and fortune, gullibility, victims of a skilled manipulator they may have been. • -Safechuck & Robson BBC Interview Michael Jackson Abused us hundreds of times. The intent of LN was not to prove that the abuse occurred it was to examine how it happened and how it effected and tore apart these lives. Leaving Neverland: What Was Wade Robson Burning in the End ... Leaving Neverland - Documentary Mania. So many kids legally emancipated, Mothers bonded with an absent MJ, agreeing to let your son stay with Michael but he never showed interests in your daughters? Just look at the Harvey situation why victims are silent. He created a safe environment to lay these stories out and as a result I found both men to be authentic, with potent narratives about their experiences. I was just baffled by this. Durdu Berakiis. He said outright that he believed MJ was a child molester, but that the case in question (Jordan, I think?) HBOs great guide of resources for survivors provided to us by u/soulsticecleaner. If you look at closely all of the Parents were convinced to be a little more star struck than normal and sudden wealth or comfort as a friend to Michael, they all agreed to let MJ PARENT the kids and take them out of the country when controversy arose, which seems insane to me. I guarantee almost any convicted rapist that had a wife at the time she of Rapes or Convictions would say “He never raped me, he was sweet, nice guy, everybody liked him” it doesn’t make sense to me that most believe these boys (Corey and Macauley) are lying? Leaving Neverland Review: Michael Jackson Doc Isn't Proof ... Michael Jackson Cast a Spell. This threw me. All the pornography in the bedroom where they slept. Years 11-12 . Play. Hot New Top. Use evidence from public court documents? It’s an important perception the world had about the property. Michael can be heard again and seen in a more 1 on 1 setting during this video as early 4:53. I was actually a little taken aback at how traditional & subtle it was, considering that I was aware of the run-time. Both Parts 1 & 2 of Leaving Neverland will premiere on HBO GO/HBO NOW on Sunday night. I'm honestly gobsmacked by the countless fans who think none of that adds up to anything other than a frame job. If you haven't seen it, how do you know there isn't hard evidence? The 1993 charges never saw the inside of a courtroom, it always seemed like there was a reason MJ’s lawyers made that happen. It's a great film, but I don't know of its ethical or not. Both admitted this in Leaving Neverland. Here is a longer more distinguishable Older adult Randy Speaking Clip starts around 2:00 into this 1989 three part Donahue family interview. Press J to jump to the feed. I think this footage was surrounding the Bashir doc, because he did say a lot of this then too. I think it's an important documentary for the way it shows how pedophiles groom parents. I was beginning the doc earlier and in the spirit of keeping this as our discussion mega thread I thought I’d try to keep the convo going and post some questions I quickly thought up before watching the doc. The two-part documentary LEAVING NEVERLAND explores the separate but parallel … This took place prior to any allegations. Aside from the graphic recounting of sexual experiences, the most distressing aspect of the documentary for me was the two sets of parents. Reviewed it over at https://www.nabsonmovies.com/post/review-leaving-neverland-part1 if anyone's interested. As an example when you see MJ holding hands with Jordan Chandler during the Super bowl half time news stories and everything else, you just assumed he was making a little kids dream come true. All are welcomed to post or begin a thread about all things doc related. Leaving Neverland - Part 2 MA15+ | Documentary Details . How can you allow your child to sleep in the same bed? Here’s another family interview of a 1993 Jackson’s Randy can be heard at 1:30. LEAVING Neverland director Dan Reed has sensationally admitted that the dates given by one of Michael Jackson’s accusers in his film are WRONG. Here’s Jermaine’s voice at roughly that age he can be heard @3:03 into this clip with him and then wife Hazel Gordy. This is also a movie or TV showdownloaded via an onlinedistribution website, such as iTunes. Huge. Then I read a book between high school and university - I think it was the Randy Taraborellii book? That’s exactly what Neverland Ranch was, from the moment it was looked at by MJ the news stories were reporting his plans. It's so fucked before we even get to the sexual abuse allegations. (I doubt Feldman would lie about it) A rapist doesn't rape everyone they meet and what better way to have amazing character witnesses for you if you ever got caught? Joe the man himself (also still telling some falsehoods here to sell the recently departed from Motown and slightly changed group “The Jacksons”) Joe can be heard @ 2:50 into the video. Press J to jump to the feed. I think the tone fit and they did well editing, following the timeline and switching back and forth between everything. Does anyone else remember all of these cases happening like it was yesterday? I will add your links to the post. Episodes. I did not bother with part 2. I am mostly puzzled by the parents and MICHAELS abuse. Zero Trailers. Leaving neverland part 2. I also think it’s weird that before the halftime show we never really saw him with kids accept Emmanuel Lewis and Macauley Calvin, which didn’t seem odd they were stars too. Do you think this doc portrays Neverland Ranch’s actual exclusivity well? There´s too much smoke not to be fire. Part 2 is more thematic, it’s about coming to terms. Here’s an older Tito Jackson’s speaking voice circa 1984 in a 1 on 1 interview that’s actually about how MJ refuses to do them. Episodes. Not cool. Just aired part 1 here in the UK. I whole heartedly believe if Corey was ever abused by MJ he 100% would speak up, but does everyone believe rapists can’t get married? It always puzzled me that this was acceptable to whom ever was interviewing him at that time. (Unless they were male) and, Daughters/Sisters were not even treated the same as your son was in the beginning of these “friendships”. Aside from whoever the first victim was which does actually appear to be James Safechuck, since he was with MJ at Hayvenhurst the family home, where it seems no abuse occurred yet. After watching this documentary, it makes me sick that the parents allowed their young boys to sleep with a grown man in his bed. Sexual abuse is often cyclical. Does anyone know when part 2 of leaving neverland is coming out ? Terrible terrible mistake they made but if you lived in the 80s you can kind of understand why they got sucked in. I remember the news stories and the numerous times this was brought up and shoot down by fans. Michael Jackson Searching for Neverland Trailer 2. It rattled me. In the case of Jordy Chandler, which is the case we know the most about, the mom vouches that MJ was practically a part of their family and that Evan Chandler(Jordy's father) was trying to gain custody back of Jordy. It makes me sick to think these men are getting called liars. We can call it questionable, suspicious or wtv, but there is nothing that we can say "this is a fact, this is real". I would rate it a 8-9 out of 10 too. I was disturbed as hell watching this, but thinking about it days after, I found it way dramatized for a documentary. Carrie Fisher also mentioned that Evan Chandler would, prior to his divorce, boast about how his son was friends with Michael Jackson. I thought this might be kinda interesting too although it isn’t some rock solid evidence of really anything. I grew up as a huge fan of MJ. Here’s a quick snippet of a Young Michaels speaking Voice which no one points out was actually fairly deep considering his adult voice. I think Dan Reed did a great job focusing the story solely on the boys and their families and really getting into what abuse looks like and how it manifests. Just felt like I needed to explain a little bit more. ALL Feedback is always welcome here. Especially as a parent, some of the bits were hard to get through. Just sharing my opinion. It's a lot of trust from Dan Reed that his audience will sit through 4 hours or so of what is such explicit material - but it's the correct call. if you can’t stomach the traumatic stories in ‘Leaving Neverland’ or think it may possibly be too much for you to handle, I strongly urge you to review them to assist in making your decision. On the other hand, not a human being on earth would have said the same thing about a child molester/rapist. Including the endless news cycles with all things MJ controversy like the original 1993 charges where Michael issued This Televised statement? They have all the power, money and lawyers in the world against a little kid. Come right back and share. Look at me I am an amazing person that helps sick children, I could NEVER hurt a child. If you’re watching ‘Leaving Neverland’ what do you think of the doc so far? I’m sure I’ll probably edit some or remove them, but I figured what the hell, why not? I agree I can’t believe how long this was actually spun around successfully and it was! Just a couple of interesting interviews I found while trying to snag speaking voice clips with some interesting Voice Comparison’s of the Jackson’s. Where did the Lisa Marie Presley and Debbie Rowe situation fit in here?!?! I’m completely conflicted over the music because of all of this, but I do find it interesting that after Dangerous and the 1993 allegations I stopped purchasing and listening to his new music. It was "unauthorized," that I do recall EDIT: It was actually this book by Christopher Andersen. I remember the elaborate bells system being announced as evidence during the raid but I feel like I’m the only one? One of the moments in part 2 that really shocked me was the brief interview with the jury foreman. imo there was a visible pattern above and beyond everything else in all of these allegations. He had what 8 siblings? Just started it now. My apologies because I kept making the Teen/twenties-ish Jermaine’s voice comparison remarks incorrectly throughout my replies. Please don’t feel it’s necessary to answer this when responding. He worked the camera while interviewing the two men and there was only one other person on set working the lighting. For the past several years, though, as I've learned more about patterns of abuse, about grooming, etc., and then seeing this documentary...there is no doubt anymore. I find their stories credible too. Leaving Neverland (Part 1) - Discussion. We’re a little torn on how to feel about this one because it could just be a spiteful thing or it could confirm something we’ve all deep down always kind of knew. Log In Sign Up. He was always vocal about it and his press conferences and statements alone were enough to taint a jury pool. That's a biased hit piece. After Neverland’ is a conversation Oprah Winfrey Hosts with Wade and James, alongside director Dan Reed, filmed before an audience of survivors of sexual abuse and others whose lives have been impacted by it. But somehow people, that are neither me or know my abuser, go far and beyond to tell me I make it up for attention. I know they say this a lot, but if you didn’t grow up in that era did this really come across like that to you? Part 1 will be available at 8:00 p.m. I’m also sharing anything necessary to the post as it’s listed too! I watched the OWN special after the airing and read interviews with Reed. There's a lot of evidence to suggest tabloid news outlets were fabricating and recycling old stories just for the sheer spike in ad revenue through traffic. The way they speak and move their hands feels like an act. The public was pretty sheltered to the victims parents and family until now. What did everyone think of this documentary? It's good that we talk about this. The … I wore down two copies of Thriller on vinyl by the time I was 7. I'd say looking at it from a filmmaking perspective it's a solid 8 - 9 out of 10 from me. I watched it straight through and by the time I barreled through 4 hours of these horrible accounts I just felt anxious and sad. What evidence? I like some of his music, I dislike some of his music. This is never discussed by the Jackson’s, but this rare interview adds to the allegations. Leaving neverland part 2. We know Joe hit them all and Latoyas mentioned sexual abuse but no one else has ever mentioned it or supported that claim. Watch now. For something so serious, and after the Jussie Smollett scenario...I am not watching a doc piece that has no hard evidence and is made in way to make me side with the "victims". Premiere. I never knew the jury that acquitted him still felt he was a pedophile. Add to my Shows. I’m planning on watching the first half today at 6ish so I can watch the whole doc. I guess I should point out that I'm not a diehard Michael Jackson fan. The boys definitely experienced a truly ungetatable opportunity. In fact, if you were like me, you grew up loving Wade Robson. I mean yeah it's a hit piece aimed at taking down a fucking pedophile. When the accusations first came out I dismissed them outright. someone else posted this, but its more about abuse and how it grows and happens, vs "a hit piece". TVNZ in New Zealand has the whole thing on demand so I was able to stop and start it. DREAM13Media. I think they definitely did great from a technical side. Because of this I have included some resources for unsure viewers. I don’t care if he was MJ or not. What happens when the doc is released? 1:22 . • -Check out this 1997 Barbara Walters Interview with Michael, • -Vulture- The Story Behind Leaving Neverland, • -Vanity Fair- “1994 Archived Nightmare in Neverland”, • -May 25, 1993: The National Enquirer’s publishing about Jackson’s relationship with Chandler and his family Michael Jackson’s Secret Family – A Millionaire’s Wife and Her Two Kids. Culkin himself denied, even testifying in court. Everyone on this documentary look the same. If this happened to a 12 Yr old MJ Joe absolutely would’ve done the same to Michael. Anyone who defends Michael Jackson is defending a pedophile monster. Not even questioned? 57% Upvoted. When you are showered with trips and gifts and houses I guess it was easy for them to ignore the obvious. In the absence of any hardcore “smoking gun” evidence against Jackson, the prosecution tried desperately to make a case for several legal art books which Jackson owned as part of an extensive library, one that contained over ten thousand titles on art and photography (subjects that were of interest to him as inspiration for his own lyrics and films). Taken from MMA Show #58 w/Brendan Schuab:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLgPhMUOmDw New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, More posts from the DocuJunkies community. I initially believed MJs relationship with kids was as he described.. because of a lost childhood, after the documentary, not anymore. One of the biggest inconsistencies was Jordy Chandler(first accuser) saying he was circumcised when he wasn't. I suppose that's how the filmmakers wanted you to feel, sad and aware, but I dont know that I could watch it again. Join. Every single action they have taken has been so suspicious. … Leaving Neverland Premise: Director Dan Reed's two-part documentary features interviews with Wade Robson and James Safechuck as well as their families as they discuss how the then two pre-teen boys were befriended by Michael Jackson. He´s a pedophile beyond reasonable doubt. Since we were not in a room with him. "It is now the second most watched [documentary] on HBO in 10 years having reached 7.5 million people for Part 1." Articles About. I haven't watch the entire thing because I couldn't stomach it. It’s been hard to deny the allegations since 93 although they did do a good job with spin on Jordan’s case. Sure if you’re being abused you might not report it and you might feel the connection these boys described. Even his missing childhood doesn’t make sense. Because that happens. 1993 Jermaine @ 1:57, Tito @2:04, sister Rebbie @2:46, an older Katherine @2:55, Jermaine oddly sounding an awful lot like Michael @3:14 in? (Except the other reddit post because I don’t know that subs policy. Leaving Neverland. I’m really interested in the Oprah backlash and to what extent Michaels super-stardom can overreach to Oprah’s? I don't think we will find an answer; but atleast we give victims a feeling that we understand them a bit. To come out and say what theyve said in the documentary and to destroy MJs and their own lives takes alot of courage. Safechuck, who appeared in the recent documentary Leaving Neverland, alleged in a 2014 lawsuit that Jackson had abused him from 1988 until 1992. Does anyone know when part 2 of leaving neverland is coming out ? What are your thoughts on Robson and Safechuck? “The 11 Most Disturbing Allegations in Leaving Neverland”, Everything You Should Know About The New Jackson Documentary, The most-watched interview in television history, Michael Jackson’s Secret Family – A Millionaire’s Wife and Her Two Kids, Drawings and that letter he first wrote Michael, This Post about Michael having possibly been “chemically Castrated” by his father Joe Jackson, Here’s Jermaine’s voice at roughly that age he can be heard @3:03, you can hear her in this 1980 family interview at 3:46, Motown doc with Bery Gordy and Suzanne Depasse, Jay Leno who was even staying at Neverland Ranch, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pP9X8KkCapU. Start watching with your public library card or university login. Leaving Neverland: Michael Jackson and Me. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, News & Discussion about Major Motion Pictures, Press J to jump to the feed. Okay so clearly I’ve officially reached “gone to the zoo crazy” here while trying to hunt down that overused and suddenly missing MJ’s Speaking voice Clip when replying to you and in this thread, but I just cannot find it. -How has the doc effected your opinion of him and or his music? Still no excuse. bro do you have a timestamp on the HOUR LONG VIDEO you linked??? There is no proof he did it. Even if you just want to discuss something you’ve just watched about or would like to watch here. I'm not a fan of Jackson but I don't like these types of documentaries. He plainly exhibited how wrong he knew it was. 0:45. I think I would not feel different if it was not about MJ but someone less known like in 'hiding in plain sight'. Just aired part 1 here in the UK. I don´t believe a single word out of the Jackson estate either, they say its a money grab but they themselves fought over the estate money just a couple of years ago. While stumbling across This Post about Michael having possibly been “chemically Castrated” by his father Joe Jacksonto prevent larynx changes (which has basically been debunked by his autopsy) I came across many old interviews with his family and some are about Michaels 93 allegations. Filmow.com. Please submit a documentary title in the Nominating threads and PLEASE vote in our Polls. MJ spend hours and hours over months grooming the mothers and pretending to be their friends. I tried to detail out and share video times so you wouldn’t need to watch the videos in entirety. I guess I get it or at least I’m trying too (Hell I’ve never been through it or anything like it) but thinking about Jordan Chandler being cross examined and so harshly as a young abused child and now knowing these victims could’ve spared him some of that pain and controversy by lending credibility to his allegations is really heartbreaking here. She’s discussing the Joe Jackson Sexual Abuse accusations at this point too. Can’t have kids they don’t abuse? edit2: Just finished it. I find them both very credible, I believe them. 0:57. They even enhanced certain sounds to make them look more miserable. Airing on HBO tonight after the doc 10:00PMEST. I watched part 1. I knew something was wrong with him and that being 40 and sleeping next to a stranger's kid was wildly inappropriate at best, but it wasn't hard to rationalize that away with the whole "he's a perpetual child himself" angle. Ugh,watched both eps,i totally believe the accusers,which is hard to say as a lifelong fan but watching them speak,to me on a gut level it's undeniable.First album i ever bought was Bad,i was so proud of my purchase i had my photo taken with the L.P,in retrospect his post thriller work particularly seems almost aimed at children.To me as a kid his songs were like crack, euphoric escape from reality,so chilling to realise how much of that was to do with him still being psychologically frozen in a childlike state presumably from his own abuse as a child.No excuses for him but his albums being named Bad and Dangerous seems almost like a cry for help or confession in plain sight.With him,Cosby,R.Kelly and others it feels like it was always in our faces,humanity for these and many other reasons needs to take a long difficult look at itself and how we treat celebrities/the rich/powerful. 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